When I received an e-mail last week from an Internet marketer that I have been watching for a very long time and then another from a good colleague of mine about John Reese’s “Outsource Force”, I thought, “Hmm… since this is my industry and exactly what I do, I should watch this.”  So, Trina (my lead project manager) and I sat down and watched the first video.

My first thought was: another Internet marketer trying to get rich off of an age-old idea that you can buy in a $17 book at your local book store.  This person agrees:

Screen shot 2010-05-07 at 10.06.33 AM

My second thought was: why are some people still falling for the superficial videos that feature fancy cars and cool sunglasses?

Screen shot 2010-05-07 at 10.02.10 AM

My third thought was: what is a US-based business owner doing promoting outsourcing to the Philippines?

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The Truth Behind These Video Series

Of course, the answer wasn’t far away.  John Reese is an Internet marketer. He’s hired some people from other countries at a rate of $2 per hour (he calls this his $2 per hour POWER FORMULA!) and is now strategically placing himself online as the outsourcing expert.

This is the same guy that got famous for his $1 Million dollar day on the Internet.

The people promoting his video series and his products are affiliates who are only seeing dollars. Want proof?  Check out this guy who is giving away an iPad if you buy John Reese’s Outsource Force product from him.  If an affiliate can afford a $600 device as a bonus, just imagine how much he’s going to rake in off of your purchase…

Screen shot 2010-05-07 at 10.03.27 AM

John Reese knows that everyone is looking for the ultimate dream…  Give away your entire business and make enough money to buy a faux-Delorean… just like him.  I’m sure that is the epitome of success for a lot of people, no?

John isn’t just giving away all of this amazing information in a video series. He’s upselling you to a course where he’ll teach you how to outsource to these inexpensive countries to achieve the “dream”…  Basically, he is going to want your money and a lot of it… for information you can find online for free or in a book.  Remember, $1 Million dollar dude on the Internet (his claim to fame).

Unfortunately, John’s videos are full of holes and full of information that I, as an outsourcing expert, give away for free.

The Problems With Outsource Force

Internet marketers promote really infomercial-type stuff all of the time and people buy it up.  Why does THIS video series in particular bother me?  Well, it’s my industry.  It’s what I’ve done for the last six years.  It’s also how I put food on my table and how the 28 people who work inside of my company put food on their tables.

When an Internet marketer, who is just trying to make a boatload of money, comes out making claims that you should never hire outsourcing firms, you shouldn’t pay more than a couple hundred dollars per month and that you should help out another economy instead of your own, it digs deep.

However, aside from all of that, I’m just tired of seeing people drink the REALLY expensive Kool-Aid.

The videos and the message is misleading. The videos teach people an incorrect and one-sided view on outsourcing.  The videos assume that every overseas provider is going to be super fantastic, speak perfect English and give you exactly what you want for only TWO DOLLARS per hour.

Do you remember when Tim Ferriss’ “Four Hour Work Week” came out?  He promoted these outsourcing companies in India like nobody’s business and sold the whole “world is flat” idea.  Unfortunately, a lot of people who then tried the whole, “let’s outsource to India” thing ended up disappointed.  Turns out, those companies weren’t measuring up.  Between the language issues and the time difference, people were finding it hard to coordinate teams and a lot of people realized that they didn’t want to be managers.  They simply needed help.

Screen shot 2010-05-07 at 10.46.37 AM

Most people don’t realize that outsourcing overseas comes with a lot of baggage that doesn’t exist when you hire a North American company.  The simple fact that John is focusing so heavily on outsourcing for the cheapest rate possible shows the VALUE he places on outsourcing. He doesn’t want a team, he wants a set of “workers.”

What I Wish John Reese’s Videos Taught Instead

What John should be teaching people is that outsourcing for $2 per hour is not a BLANKET SOLUTION but rather an option. It’s an option for those individuals who have the hours it is going to take to train those people and the hours that it will take to get past the language barriers and the time difference.

What John should also be telling people is that managing a team and building your own overseas “outsource force” is going to take TIME, MONEY and PATIENCE. This is exactly why companies like mine exist.  We don’t require YOU to manage the team but instead, we already have our own team.  We work well together.  We know each other.

I wish that John did not tell people to avoid outsourcing firms. That is a stereotypical statement and one that does not hold its weight when you look at the number of successful, helpful and well run outsourcing firms.  What John should have said instead is that you shouldn’t hire the big outsourcing firms overseas. Think of those as puppy mills but for people instead.  People there are paid poorly and the turnover rate is high.  A company like mine however has a team that is paid very well, works directly with our clients and builds relationships that last many, many years.

That outsourcing isn’t going to lead to your company’s explosion in profits and to that faux-Delorean. Nope, you’ll still have to be involved and do a lot of work yourself.  Outsourcing is about sharing your vision, leading a team, getting them inspired to do work with you and building a relationship.  Having a team of drone workers is not the answer.  Building a relationship with someone who knows your business intimately is what will create success in your business.  Believe me – I’ve seen it happen time and time again with our very own clients.

To Finish Up and Dump Out the Glass of Kool-Aid…

I really wish Internet marketers would stop trying to creep into the space of outsourcing. Just because you outsource doesn’t mean you are an expert.  How do you  know that your team is not sitting back and wishing you would do things a different way?  I get my hair done by a stylist but it by no means makes me an expert on hair care.

The real experts on this subject are those that are outsourced to.  We understand the logistics, we understand the dynamics and we’ve already been telling people about your “money making machine” that is Basecamp.  It’s not new and it’s not worth the high price tag.

Imagine for a moment that someone started a movement or an idea that YOUR customers should shop overseas and at a fraction of the prices you were charging. What if someone thought it was a great idea to support another country’s economy over your own?  We need to work on keeping our business within the economies where those people are spending money.

I really hope that these videos don’t tip the scale in terms of what is expected, anticipated or desired in the world of outsourcing. Otherwise, a lot of North American freelancers and other outsourcers will be out of work and no longer spending their money in YOUR companies.

  • Absolutely brilliant article!!! - 100% spot on. Most people have no idea how much time is wasted because of the language differences.
  • Omar
    Hey Erin,

    Don't hate. Congratulate... lol...

    Sorry but your post sounds like hate mail and
    disrespects a successful marketer that many
    people like and admire.

    Bashing other marketers on your blog just isn't cool.
    Would you teach one of your "Social Branding" students
    to build their brand with these sorts of posts?

    You're trying to be all righteous in your words..
    ie.. John Reese Marketing = BAD but...
    Erin Blaskie Marketing = GOOD
    C'mon now...

    The funniest part is how you try to wrap it all
    up with a nice little Patriotic bow at the end... LOL

    Support the "American economy" ... really? you of all people?
    Here's a quote from your very own website BSETC on the
    About Our Team page....
    "The company now has twenty-eight team members.
    These team members are spread out across Canada,
    the US, the UK and Europe."

    So you support the economies of Canada, UK, Europe
    but not others... so like the South American economy
    or the African economy and every other economy is not
    good enough for you??

    That sounds pretty racist to me... and I'm as
    Patriotic as they come. But you obviously don't
    practice what you preach.

    You are right about one thing... there is a marketer
    here slinging bad advice... but's its not John.

    I doubt you'll allow this comment anyway.
    Good Luck with your business.
    I'll continue supporting John.
    -Omar
  • Oh yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. Women's intuition just works really right. Great!
  • Karl
    Today I made a really really bad experience with John Reese's Outsource Force Course. I purchased it for about $2000 but my experience is really bad – a $19,95 course would perform much better.
  • Leon
    Your thoughts on this subject are very similar to what I think.

    Outsourcing work overseas is NOT easier and definitely not better than having it done by people in your own country, at least that's my experience. I'm located in Europe and about 6 months ago wanted to outsource a web design job. I got into contact with companies from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and The Philippines. I was not particularly impressed by either of them because;

    1. All of them could do everything I wanted and more, staying within my budget and with very unrealistic time frames. If I asked them: "but can you also do this...? " "Are you sure?" The reply was: "yes sir, no problem sir, we are a highly professional and look forward to serving you".

    I got the impression that they just didn't get it. They just didn't know what was expected from them.

    How can somebody design, create and implement a fully integrated webstore with payment integration etc. etc. etc. in just two weeks, for less than 700 EURO? I just didn't trust it.

    Another example is from a company in India that simply copied my "requirements" into their offer. I would write that I needed a ERP database fully integrated and bla, bla.

    In their offer they copied my exact words; "Sir, we can create a ERP database fully integrated". Had I asked them if they could put a man on the moon within a week they would probably have answered: "No problem sir, we are very experienced in putting men on the moon".

    When I informed in my own country; most companies could do the job but it took much longer and it cost much more. That's what made me decide to have this job done by a company in my country; people that spoke my language and people that I could meet in person.

    That doesn't mean that outsourcing to Asia is a bad thing. Not at all. It can be a very good alternative and there are many qualified professionals out there, I just haven't met them yet.

    With regards to John Reese and Outsource Force; this is just another way for him to take people's money. With all respect but I cannot by any means believe that this man is truly interested in running an outsourcing business. We all know his history. He's an internet marketer and as such he's only interested in making money. There is ZERO morality in what he does.
  • Thanks Leon for the excellent comment and for sharing your outsourcing story. I agree - it CAN work but often doesn't. Which is why it doesn't bode well for a blanket outsourcing solution.

    As for John's product, the feedback I've got so far from people who did invest in it is that it's not worth the $2,000 price tag but rather fits a $19.95 price tag.
  • Good points!

    I'm putting together a TeleSummit on Outsourcing and have yet to find someone who has found it easy to use overseas services. And while I outsource 70% of my business, the only foreign country I ventured to use is Canada.
  • Thanks Charlie! If you need someone to speak on outsourcing and delegation, I'd be happy to help! I have many presentations on the subject. Glad to hear you've outsourced to Canada! That's where I am ;)
  • Something a little troubling about the Reese product release for me was the way that *sight-unseen*, every hungry marketer out there filled every known communication media with cut and paste JV copy as they fought to get their 50% commission.

    Their sugar high frenzy of affiliate links and bonus inducements may have obscured the fact that no one other than Reese's own team knew exactly what was actually going to be delivered!

    Props to him for commanding such a willing army of minions, but shame on those who hung their "reputation" on slavishly posting a barrage of word-for-word clones of his own promotional ad copy through-out every online space they could find.

    Irrespective of the merit of the content, for me the bigger issue was affiliate behavior.

    I fully support the efforts of Outsourcing educators such as Jon Jonas, Jeff Mills, Tyrone Shum, Daniel Turner and visionaries such as Tim Ferriss and David Walsh.

    A better educated and informed business world is good for both the contractors and those who hire them.
  • Love this part of your comment:

    "A better educated and informed business world is good for both the contractors and those who hire them."

    It's so true. Unfortunately, some people don't realize that what they are buying is coming from someone who's just in it to make a windfall of cash... not actually make a difference in someone's business.
  • From your new fan reading this was like a breath of fresh air :)
    I fault John for stooping so low but fault all the desperate morons who promoted this crap. That first day I saw all the so called millionaires sending this crap out.
    They are the people that ought to be ashamed of themselves I rather be broke.
    Thanks for having the guts and honesty to speak up :)
  • Thanks :) It wasn't an easy post to write but one that I am glad I did.
  • Hi Michel! I've actually commented on that post too :) I like Yaro.
  • I know a friend it took him time to develop a good team, he had to train all his team and he did treat them very well. He said however it was $6.00 per hour usd, so I do not know if that 2.00 claim is accurate perception. Also I am likely to want to pay someone a fair wage, get value and get quality. Over here lowest hourly rate is 15.50 minimum wage, really makes you wonder what we are doing to our own places we call home if we do not look around our homes first.
  • Lisa - excellent point... It is better sometimes to keep your business spending local. It only feeds back into your own business.
  • In the words of Little Richard "Good golly miss molly"
    I cannot believe this for real?!
    You're totally the Dr Phil of the internet marketing industry.
    Keep telling us how it is!
  • Thanks Mich :)
  • Lisa
    Hi!

    I found a link to this article off of Twitter.

    I sense a lot of fear in your article. There are plenty of clients out there for everyone... and... just because John is telling internet marketers that it's a great idea to outsource overseas, does not mean that EVERYBODY on the internet is going to listen to him. If someone wants to buy a product on outsourcing for 5k or 10k, that's their choice.

    If you've been outsourcing for 10+ years, doesn't that make you some what of an expert?

    He is simply sharing his expertise to people who WISH to outsource overseas. Is that a crime? And who cares about the sunglasses and car. It's just a video. You can't please everybody.

    God Bless,
    Lisa


  • Hi Lisa,

    Thanks for the comment!

    The article isn't coming from a place of fear but rather one of annoyance. I'm not sure what industry you're in but I can imagine that if you saw one entrepreneur making false claims against your industry and more specifically, your type of company, you would want to shed some light on the misguided message.

    I'm not worried about losing business or not gaining clients. I am however concerned that it devalues my industry as a whole. When someone says, "Outsourcing shouldn't cost you a lot of money" that is a blanket statement that some people take as a rule. I then have to spend my time during consults, etc. explaining why we don't charge $2/hour.

    The reality is, he's not teaching people how to outsource overseas because his heart is in it. He's doing it to make money. Otherwise, his course price tag wouldn't be overinflated. I'd have zero issue with this if he wasn't also miseducating my target market. That just doesn't sit well with me and I'm sure wouldn't with you if the information shed incorrect light on your industry.

    If his message was more equally balanced and didn't warn people against companies like mine, this post wouldn't exist.

    Erin
  • As someone who has used overseas, underseas and next door workers we have to come to accept that we decide what's best for us. But we also have to realize that there are pro's and con's for each and what works best for us.

    I've used designers and programmers in Russia, Australia, Argentina, India, Michigan and Toronto. They all had good and bad points.

    My biggest issue with this type of product, and most others in the IM field is that none of these techniques mean fark all if your product/service stinks. We focus on scalability, shortcuts etc... and we forget about the content itself.
  • Hi Scott!

    Excellent point. It's a definite shortcut. It's also the "here's another way to get rich" idea which I always find superficial and empty.

    Erin
  • Thanks so much for writing this article. I got those emails but did not take the time to read them. This is perhaps the first time I have read such an inclusive review of a launch with so much hype. I have found that people usually attack with anger that covers the logic or perspective that they want to present.
    I have a few friends who have been talking recently why or why not outsourcing is good. The biggest reason people are saying not is the time factor it takes to undo the executed work. I have one friend who has invested the time in forming a team but he will still keep some things in house.
  • Hi Rebecca!

    Thanks for commenting!!

    As someone who has owned and operated an outsourcing company for 6+ years, I felt the need to balance out the message being portrayed in his videos.

    Erin
  • I LOVE IT ERIN! I can't help but laugh because nearly (2 years ago?) I wrote something very similar about Reese's attempted relaunch of Traffic Secrets II - in which he did a big "I'm an expert on social media" riff and was treated like a pariah by the rank and file Im-er including a giant butt-rash attack from a very well known wanna-be gal who had written a blathering affiliate "review."

    These guys can't help but keep going to the well over and over - as if it's their turn to hype and fleece the masses.

    BUT -

    Your angle on the abusive and predatory nature of seeking out the exploitation of overseas employees is excellent and timely.

    My daughter - RachaelButts.com (plug) and I have both found out that it is the American worker who will give you the best results and least headaches.

    Honestly, if your business can't survive paying a fair rate for help - you need to fix your business - not screw a human being in another country - just because you can.

    "Where you live should not decide - whether you live or whether you die." Bono U2 from "Crumbs From Your Table" - How to Dismantle and Atomic Bomb
  • Hi Rick!

    Thanks for taking the time to comment :) I agree with you. Internet marketers are always looking for the next thing that they can re-package and sell to people from their high perch of expertise. The thing that happened this time is that he didn't balance out his information fairly and warned people against companies like mine and well... I don't let that happen sitting down. ;)

    Erin
  • Hi Erin,

    You asked me to come to share some thoughts, so here I am. I am usually surfing the net on my phone, so conversations on Twitter & Facebook are easiest. Now that I'm on the computer, it's easier to leave a comment here.

    As you know, the comment that started on Facebooks with Michel Fortin on Facebook stated that I felt that you either didn't really watch the videos or you were hearing what you wanted to hear. I tend to think it's the latter and I don't say that as a dig or any type of insult toward you. I just feel you're looking at the contents of the course from your own perspective/preference/opinion. That's totally fine, but when you couple that with saying something is dangerous advice and it's full of holes...I haven't really seen the support of that. If you care to elaborate on what is dangerous or full of holes, I am very interested. Perhaps it's the marketing that's dangerous, as opposed to the course. I don't know.

    Now reading through additional comments you've made, I have been able to determine:

    1. You object to hiring people overseas for $2/hour.
    2. You don't like the way the product is being launched.
    3. You don't like that John said not to hire an outsourcing company.
    4. You don't feel that as a business owner who has run multiple businesses and generated millions of dollars can give other people advice on outsourcing in their business.

    For #1 - I kind of object to it too, but as my own personal preference. I don't think I have the right to say my preference is right and someone else's is wrong.

    You know, years ago, I hired a lady to update hundreds of website pages to a new template. I hired her because she was someone I met online, not realizing she lived in India. I had no idea where she lived. She wanted to charge me $60 for her work. I said I wanted to pay her more than that and she told me she wouldn't take more. I ended up sending more to her through PayPal and through her reaction could tell she was very uncomfortable about it.

    What I realized from this is that individuals have a choice as to whether or not they feel exploited. That lady didn't have to work for me...I wasn't her only option for an income, but she told me what she wanted for her work and didn't want more.

    For #2, I'm not a big fan either, but I don't think it has anything to do with the quality of the product or the information provided. But I certainly won't argue the point you made about the bonuses, the pricing and pretty much everything else that you said about the launch.

    For #3, I really feel John said that based on a couple bad experiences and I'm not sure why he made such a blanket statement. But that one statement of opinion and preference certainly didn't mean for me that the rest of what he said was valueless. I am looking at the content of the videos as a whole. I don't agree with it all, but I also see valuable advice on finding quality workers, communicating with contractors, etc.

    Honestly, I approached the videos expecting not to like them because like I said, I don't advocate using cheap overseas labor myself. But when I watched them, I felt the subject was handled very well.

    For #4, I don't believe John has called himself an expert...but sure, he is positioning himself as one. As a person who has run multiple businesses and generated millions of dollars in sales with a heck of a lot of outsourced support, I am interested in hearing his perspective. While I absolutely respect your own expertise, I don't believe that running a Virtual Assistant firm automatically makes one an expert either. Again, I believe that you ARE an expert. You provide valuable advice to clients and deliver a service - John has experience from the other side of the coin - as the client. I think that's very valuable as well.

    Michel Fortin has stated he feels that people are going to take John's advice and do it badly. No doubt about it, but if those people were actually listening, they might get the message John is actually sending.

    On Twitter, you mentioned that you felt that John had changed his attitude on outsourcing. I don't think he has and I'm not sure what you read in the interview that made you feel that way. He always advocated outsourcing and hiring overseas. I think he's gained a lot more experience hiring overseas in the past few years, so he has more emphasis on it...but all in all...I don't see an attitude change.

    I also don't think $2/hour is a "blanket solution" he is suggesting. The video talks about hiring from all over the world and I am *guessing* the actual course goes into more detail, but obviously, he focused on the $2/hour per thing as a marketing ploy. So yeah, I see that's where what you and Michel are saying really comes into play. It's the message being delivered in the marketing. But again, if people get caught up in the hype and aren't really listening to the advice being given...then they're foolish.

    I guess my question for you now is if the product was marketed differently, would you see the product in any different light?

    Thanks for inviting me by and for carrying on the discussion.
  • Hi Alice!

    I'll copy my comment from your blog here as it really explains what my true "beef" is with this particular product.

    My primary beef with Internet marketers, like John, getting into the outsourcing education department is they present one side as truth or fact. Blanket statements like: “Do not hire outsourcing firms” present an unfair stereotype that newbies to the world of outsourcing will take as a rule. As someone who runs a creative, professional outsourcing company, I don’t sit by idly when someone warns people to stay away from companies like mine.

    You’ve participated in the promotion of John’s Traffic Secrets program before so you know what the motivating factors are for John and his affiliates. It’s not that he’s presenting this material for the good of the people… he’s presenting it with the sexiest (a non-iPad tool that will help your business be a cash machine – Basecamp) and cheapest ($2 per hour power formula) marketing message so that people will buy his overpriced course and his affiliates will continue to tout his work. He’s not in it to actually educate FAIRLY about outsourcing and the options.

    It’s his prerogative to do so but I will stand up and provide an open conversation about outsourcing that is multi-faceted and multi-sided… without taking anyone’s money.

    Hope that helps to shed some light on my post about John’s Outsource Force and what I’ll continue to do, for free, to educate my marketplace about outsourcing and the various options that exist.

    To answer your question - yes. If this product was marketed differently AND presented both sides fairly (overseas/cheap outsourcing versus at home/more expensive outsourcing) I would have been a lot more receptive to the product and this post would have never been created. The part that I have an issue with is the one-sided message that creates an incorrect perception.

    Erin
  • Well darn it all, I replied to your reply to me off Melissa's blog...it's not mine anymore. :-)
  • LOL...excuse my nonsensical first sentence in the second paragraph. "Facebooks" lol.
  • angelawills
    Holy smokes Erin, looks like you've hit on quite a popular topic here.

    I'm not on the 'guru' lists anymore so I didn't hear about this until surfing around a few blogs yesterday.

    What really drives me batty is when the newbies get all worked up after taking these courses and think they can turn their computer into an automatic cash machine with just a few hundred dollars. So, yea, they hear they can outsource for $5/hr or $2/hr and get rich so when they hire me for $45/hr some of them think that I can perform miracles, turn water into wine, part the sea and all that crazyness.

    I mean, people GET IT offline. If you want to buy into a pretty much guranteed business model offline (like, say TIM HORTONS for the Canadians ;) you have to pay what $1 MILLION dollars? It's still not a 100% sure thing though. But all of a sudden they think you can go on the internet and magically things are different.

    People are people. Business is business. The medium does not change the input of work required, outsourced or not.

    Anyway, I think I might have gotten off topic but I appreciate that chance to rant, lol! I know you know what I'm talking about Erin and all virtual assistants, we all come across the people with overnight riches stuck to their brains.

    Oy - as I'm writing this I just realized I AM on a guru list - Frank Kerns, I forgot.

    I'd love to see some marketers teaching people how to RUN a business. That's a much needed skill these days online.
  • I agree - I'd love to see a few Internet marketers pick a niche and stick to it. Instead of trying to teach whatever they can "sexy" up, just teach really good material that is unbiased and presents options.
  • Sigh, because I hadn't heard anything about Tim Ferriss in a while, I was hoping that all that devaluing of VAs' work was over. I should've known that once the Ferriss' stuff died down, some other fortune-hunter would step in to take his place.

    There will always be someone who'll find a way to make a fortune at the expense of others, and those someones' will be the first to piss and moan when someone finds a way to outsource *their* primary expertise overseas for much cheaper. I just pray that when that time comes, I will not have lost my sense of compassion.

    =>Donna Caissie, the ExtraOrdinary VA
    va@extra-assist.com
    http://www.extra-assist.com
    http://www.linkedin.com/in/donnacaissie
  • Unfortunately this is true... People will always devalue certain industries when they have a motivating factor behind them. In this case, it's money. John knows he can sell this as a sexy new way of doing business but at the end of the day, it creates a miseducation of our marketplace which we'll have to spend our time changing.
  • After reading about this previously, I decided to take a couple days and think before making a post simply because I wanted to present my opinion with fair objectivity. Thank-you Erin, for this post - you have shared your opinion while encouraging open discussion and debate!

    My concern is that this message is reaching business owners who are brand new to the concept of outsourcing. There are other options, and all options have benefits/drawbacks. The point is, there are choices. Presenting the $2 option as the ONLY choice is uneducated and biased.

    As Lisa Preston commented, because of who he is, people will listen, even if it's not in their best interest.

  • That's exactly it - it's the newbies to outsourcing and hiring help that will see this and see it as truth. It's unfortunate that only one side is presented here but posts and conversations like this one allow for multiple sides / views to be shared.
  • I don't worry that people working with $2 per hour will take my work away.

    It's in fact the other way around, if a client has experienced the work of somebody charging $2 per hour, then that client will be able to understand better why I charge more.

    Clients that pick a lower price supplier often come back with a broken project to get it fixed.

    There are times when $2/hour outsourcing can work. Not so often though :)

    Cosmin
  • Cosmin - excellent points! We're constantly in "fix my project that another company ruined" mode with some of our new clients. At least we do have that opportunity to show them why we're worth what we're worth. I just worry that newbies to the outsourcing world may lose valuable time / money doing it only one way.
  • Chris Bloor
    "Imagine for a moment that someone started a movement or an idea that YOUR customers should shop overseas and at a fraction of the prices you were charging. What if someone thought it was a great idea to support another country’s economy over your own? We need to work on keeping our business within the economies where those people are spending money."

    Wow! now isn't THAT and eye-opening comment! And I suspect a large motivation for your attacking John so forcefully.
  • Hi Chris!

    It very much is a driving force behind the blog post. It's not so black and white though. I have no problem with anyone outsourcing to any country of their choice - we all have options and sometimes, it makes sense to get the cheapest support possible.

    Where my problem lies is that John's videos portray this as the ONLY option and outsourcing to firms is "dangerous" and "risky". He's using fear-based tactics to sell one idea of outsourcing - the cheap way. So, although I am also turned off by anyone who sends business outside of our economy, it bothers me more that there are stereotypes, blanket statements and generalities used throughout these videos.

    Not everyone will understand that and it's going to be our job, as outsourcing firms, to re-educate people who come along or re-educate people who have heard his message and took it for 100% fact.

    Erin
  • OMG, Erin... I just love you. :P

    It's hard to find another woman who's not starry-eyed over Mr. John "Sunglasses" Reese - and harder still to find one who, like me, isn't afraid to speak up and tell it like it is.

    I also get frustrated watching both the affiliates after the cash (screw their clients!) and these big guns creating products that are worth far less than they are charging, simply riding on some success from years ago. In this particular case, it goes even farther and (as you said) paints broad strokes about service providers right here in North America.

    I know, because I am one of them.

    Outsourcing is an integral part of building any business, but the spin that is projected in this series is way off base. And sadly, many will listen because of who he is. I'd LOVE to see the same launch series presentation made by a "nobody" and see how well it's received by those same people who are pushing it now.

    Thanks Erin - you saved me a blog post today. :)
  • Hi Lisa!

    Thanks for the comment :)

    One of the things that bothered me about John's entire campaign was that it really is setup and designed to earn him thousands and thousands of dollars from this outsourcing course. He's going to teach people how to outsource and do it in a very one-sided, one-option way. It's not his industry, not his expertise and I'm willing to bet that he's never been outsourced TO.

    I'm anxious to see how many people drink the Kool-Aid and end up thousands of dollars poorer while John sits with his sunglasses on chuckling...

    Erin
  • LisaPreston
    Hey, Erin -

    I just had a similar discussion about your post on Facebook (Michel Fortin's page) and it's generally agreed that this product would have far different results had a "nobody" tried to launch it in an identical manner.

    While John's videos may make a few good points about outsourcing in general, I've seen nothing to convince me that he has the expertise or industry know-how to make generalizations the way he has, other than as someone who has outsourced his own stuff.

    John is "pretty". And he speaks well and convincingly. But I tend to regard any marketer as good as his last product, and frankly I wasn't bowled over by his latest. I find that he relies heavily on a reputation built many years ago (Traffic Secrets) and his association with the other "elite" like Kern, Walker, Filsaime, etc. and while that isn't necessarily a bad thing (I think anyone would like to claim association with successful marketers and be able to use their lists) it tends to give credibility to ANY product regardless of any real expertise.

    I've never really liked Kool-Aid. It makes me less popular, but I feel that in order to provide the type of honest and ethical opinions my clients deserve, I have to keep it real and be as straight as possible.

    Again, thanks for your own refreshing opinion.

    Cheers!
    Lisa

    PS - You know, one other thing... In those countries that you can hire workers for $2/hr, keep in mind that even THEY are aware that others located in more affluent countries are making more for the same work. I know if it were me and I was in their shoes, it would make me resentful that I was valued less, regardless of my skills. Just a thought. And it may be one reason that outsourcing to countries like these end with bad experiences so often - they simply don't care. They know full well they don't need to brush up their language skills or do more than mediocre work... because they will have clients lined up to pay less money no matter what. In North America, for instance, outsource workers rely on maintaining and developing good relationships and quality skills to succeed. You might pay more, but the worker will go above and beyond to keep your business, get referrals and increase their client base.
  • Thanks Erin, thanks a lot! You took the words out of my mouth...

    While I'm a marketer myself, I know from experience that outsourcing to eastern countries isn't the solution to money-making or any problem whatsoever. I've found myself with more problems like a language-, time- and culture barriere. Therefore I decided to hire a manager who lives there, but was born in Europe.

    I employ him and he does the outsourcing for me. And that's exactly what 'outsourcing companies' can do too. So I wish you the best with your business, you're on the right track... let those money-seeking Reese followers experience what outsourcing is really like, and then you can market your services to them!

    (That's marketing: let the prospect experience the pain, then provide THE solution)
  • Thanks Dave! That is exactly what we've done in the past - assisted people who have had poor experiences working with overseas providers or people who wanted more than just one body behind their company - and we'll continue to do so.
  • What a great discussion! I get asked about this now & then... I always say the same thing. What services are offered by overseas outsourcing providers are NOT THE SAME THING as what a company (like Erin's) or a solo VA is offering here in the west. It's literally comparing a monkey wrench with an apple.

    If you are an entrepreneur who needs light, intermittent BASIC help now & then (like finding a restaurant, etc) - then an AskSunday might be a great solution for you.

    The problem that Erin is pointing out is that ALL virtual business support work gets put in the same bucket - and a very incorrect perception is fostered that ALL virtual services should be $3.00/hr.

    Also - for those that think John Reese is right on this - just use your common sense - will any human being (regardless of what country they live in) will give a flying hoot about you, your work or your business if you are paying such ridiculous rates?? Common sense...
  • I agree with you Mary - the perception, from John's videos, is that all virtual services should be $3/hour and that is where our job gets harder. It's tough enough in the world of outsourcing to justify rates. People assume "assistance" means low-level work (in some cases) so they think it should be cheap and that parts of it should be done for free.

    It's a huge mis-education of our potential clients.
  • On another note... if John Reese had more team on his side than $2.00/hr outsourcers, one would surely have told him that the Delorean/sunglasses motif was kind of comical (and not in a good way)... just sayin'...
  • Again I agree Erin. Like you I am not opposed to outsourcing and using people from other countries. Have done it many times myself. There are many things that can be done better and less expensively using people online...but to say you can outsource customer service, copywriting or social media to someone who barely speaks English is just ridiculous!
  • Thank you for the comment Lauren! Yes, for some things it works but for most things, it doesn't... :)
  • laurenmcmullen
    You are so right Erin. This is just impractical for many tasks necessary to building a profitable business. You get what you pay for in anything in life but even more when hiring someone virtually.
    I just bought an Apple computer because I had constant issues with my Dell computer and their support help is based in other countries and it is very hard to understand what they are saying.
  • Hi Erin,

    I have read John Reese' video as well and I totally agree with the points that you have raised. I am a Filipino and I run an Outsourcing company as well for Virtual Assistants. I see how he has promoted Filipinos as a his favorite outsourcing country (And I thank him for that as he sees value in us). However, I do not agree in his one sided claim regarding Outsourcing companies as if we are ripping money out of our clients pockets. There are "pros" and "cons" in every thing but he made it sound as if we are all "Cons" with no substance. You are right, he should have given his insights as an Option. I believe in the saying "Quality over Quantity", Why will I buy a "something" that is worth $10 but will only last for a couple of days as compared to something that is worth "$100" that is more durable and will last for a long time.

    We all have one goal that is to have a long term business relationship with our clients that is why we make sure that we go the extra mile for our client and provide excellent service. I am sure whether you are a Freelance Virtual Assistant or an Outsourcing company, we share the ultimate goal and that is to help our clients make their business more efficient and also to provide them with the opportunity to focus on more important tasks that need their attention by delegating other tasks to their virtual assistant.

    I also want to claim that in this business, there should be no color, race or location preference.. At the end of the day it's how the service is provided that matters. On how we will retain our clients or find more clients, it still boils down to the kind of service that we provide. It's a fair game and It is not good to reach the top by stepping on other people's business.

    Lastly, I would just like to point out that high quality Virtual Assistants from the Philippines is not worth $2/hour. If in case you find VA's of that rate, there is a big chance that this is their first job or that they are new to the Virtual Assistance industry. I should know, I am from the Philippines.

    Thanks Erin and More Power!
  • Thank you so much for weighing in as a Filipino outsourcing firm!

    With John's video series, he is encouraging people to outsource cheaply because it's cheap. Not necessarily because that's where you'll find the best work or the best talent but because it's dirt cheap. He's telling people that outsourcing for $2/hour will make them richer.

    Of course it will.

    So would buying everything in my life from the Dollar Store. However, it's just impractical for all things. Outsourcing overseas is an option but it's not the only option nor should it be viewed as a cash cow / cash generator. That sort of spin is exploitation over diversity amongst your outsourcing.

    Thanks again for weighing in!
  • Thank you so much for this post. Getting started with blogging and Internet Marketing is so difficult, simply because of all of the Reese-styled "information" out there. Getting legitimate advice on these topics feels as difficult as finding unbiased info on Viagra or weight loss. I'm glad I found some good quality sites like yours to follow. Keep up the great work.
  • Thank you - my blog post is just one opinion of John's video series but I feel a fairly legitimate one given that this has been my industry for the past seven years.
  • Erin, this was an extremely well thought out and professionally written article that I really appreciated. Great job.

    Dave Dee
  • Thank you Dave!
  • goldmills
    I'll be the one who speaks out in SUPPORT of John Reese, his concepts and his teaching.

    Ya, what he's teaching is nothing new to the already convinced. Looks like most of the reader's here are already outsourcing Geniuses and have nothing new to learn?

    I've been teaching this same stuff since 2007. But I am always open to new ideas to speed up production and save time and money.

    But what happens is there are SO MANY new entrepreneurs entering into the "make money from the internet" world, they quickly get overwhelmed with:

    - No time (they have full time jobs too)
    - No Experience with Admin/training/systems
    - No Experience with the technical web stuff
    - Lack of implementation and action on ideas

    So the free information John shares creates many lightbulb moments for people who are brand new to wearing the entrepreneur's hat.

    So his information to these newbies is a welcome relief!

    It's a welcome relief knowing, whether one uses outsourced help from USA, Philippines, India, China, Argentina, Canada or other places - there are infact people out there who are willing to do fantastic work, but faster, better, and cheaper than others in other countries.

    Most new entrepreneurs have NEVER heard of the 4 hr workweek or Tim Ferriss so they did not know these systems existed before. John is now turning on what I would estimate to about 100,000 people to a "new concept" to them. But for those here who already get it... well... you already get it so you go... "ho hum... moving on..."

    And I think Erin, you feel personally threatened by this because it takes business away from you. You want to be the solution that gets hired, not some one else who might be able to do it faster, better or cheaper than you.

    I am not attacking you, I'd feel the same way too.

    So ya, I totally would understand why you would hate some of John's points.

    And you have valid points that I respect too, but I also respect John's.

    But outsourcing is NOT slavery. It's not keeping the Poor, poorer.

    As a company that outsources ourselves, we pay fair and average compensation. we also reward great effort and outstanding results.

    In the Philippines for example, the average full time worker (who works for a regular company in the Philippines, not an internet marketing outsourcer or freelancer) gets paid an average of $3300 a year USD. (that's $275 USD a month, which is $1.71 USD an hour - given 40 hr work weeks for 160 hours of work a month).

    So John is actually advocating paying workers ABOVE the average!

    Will they get rich? No.

    Will they feel taken advantage of? No, they know it's an average wage and they are happy with an average lifestyle this wage gives them. They are not looking to become entrepreneurs. They want to be workers.

    Where do I get this statistic average salary # from? The US Govt.

    The CIA has a fact book, which studies economies around the world.

    You can see it here:
    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/rp.html

    Go into the area for the Philippines. Find the area under: GDP - per capita (PPP)

    The unemployment rate in the Philippines is 7.5% while it's just about 10% here in the US.

    So, what many here are voicing is their fear of themselves being replaced by skilled workers who will do jobs better, faster and cheaper than you do.

    And I embrace that fear, it's a reality in the workforce, no matter where you live or who does the work. I have that same fear.

    I love America and I support many USA independent contractors, Operations Managers, Project Managers, Support Managers and a Joint Venture Manager who all work for my company and who all live in the USA. But I also have a very keen workforce based in the Philippines who love what they do for us too.

    They love having jobs for an American company and they wear it like a badge of honor around town and their families are proud of them.

    We treat our independent contractors from the Philippines like Family. We've studied the culture and made sure we provide fair payments and above average payments to those who prove they have the skills and training to warrant it.

    What I see most people complain here about though, is the WAY John is marketing his products, through the Video Sales letter/infomercial video campaigns.

    Well, John's delivering value to the uneducated, and he's doing it free. The only cost is an email address.

    And Yes, I do see how his blanket statements about hiring firms can piss some off, when many firms do it the right way, like Erin's and mine... :)

    And ya, he'll offer a $2k course at the end that people can buy or not buy and it'll be their choice. If they liked the information and it's new to them, they'll get many great concepts to use and grow their businesses with.

    Others, like Erin and more think $2k is too much to spend for information, and that might be true for them, while others will happily pay $2k to have a course which will teach them how workers are bringing income in that will bring a return much greater than the $2k investment.

    See, John is smart, he knows he has to show people value in how a $2k course will be able to bring returns 7 to 10 times greater than the investment cost, and someone like John is very well qualified and really experiences on systems that make money online, that have nothing to do with "selling internet marketing knowledge to internet marketers".

    He is a great marketer and systems person who can show people how this is done with good step by step screen cam videos.

    One of my coaching students that I have shared about in my trainings to learned how to hire an overseas worker at $300 a month from my system. Within 3 weeks of my training, he was able to generate over $1000 from that worker who he taught how to systematize his business. That's a great result and return on labor!

    So value and cost need to be looked at with some different perspectives.

    The point I've leave people on is simply - Implementation.

    Whether you get John's course, get the information in an ebook for $19, buy Tim Ferriss's Book, or get my free trainings, what it all boils down to is USING the concepts in the best way possible to get the results for yourself or clients that creates a happy client experience.

    There are horror stories out there of outsourcing not working.

    There are horror stories of Americans hiring American employees and those employees not working out too.

    Skill yourselves up with training. Learn how to work with and build teams, and learn how to systematize your online businesses so the business is not dependent on you anymore but on the system and the team all working in a symbiotic relationship, no matter where you decide to get your workers from.
  • Km3877
    If anyone is feeling threatened, I think it's you, Jeff, considering that you're running a program EXACTLY like John Reese. outsourcesecretsrevealed.com/ (Nice that you use being a Christian as a selling point.)

    And one of the reasons why the Philippine economy is poor, is because a lot of people are paid $2/hr. And those who are being paid $2-3/hr often leave the country to work abroad.

    As for John Reese paying ABOVE market wages.... 30 US cents?! Please. I'm Filipino, and I find this insulting. I made $3/hr on my first job TEN years ago, and had amazing benefits--medical, dental, great insurance, retirement, government benefits, etc. And the peso-dollar exchange rate was at a robust $1=52.

    Now you're paying $2/hr, no bennies, freelancer absorbs all the overhead, and the dollar is spiraling at $1=45.

    I say buy your parachute now, because when the Philippine laws on outsourcing get tightened, you will be kicked out of the airplane. Because it's folks like you who are taking advantage of people who give this industry a bad name.
  • i have to say jeff, i checked out your site yesterday and signed up for the 30 day free trial. i was VERY impressed with all of the content that you provide for free and with your network of experts that you bring in for conferences, especially Josh Anderson at your last Canadian Marketing event. Josh and Nanacast are brilliant and it shows that we are definitely on the same page! i look forward to speaking with you in your free 1 on 1 coaching calls and i will most likely stay a part of the membership club. $47 a month is a fantastic price for such great support and information.

    and kudos for being far more transparent than John Reese, i really get the feeling that you are just a really nice person who cares about doing good business and helping good people in the Philippines. You don't need a luxury Californian view and ultra expensive sports car to do that. And you certainly don't need sunglasses! LOL. great work and i'm glad that you replied to Erin's post.
  • Thanks for the comment Jeff! I appreciate someone stepping up and explaining why they enjoy and appreciate John's work.

    I'll address only one part of the comment since a lot of it not directed toward me but rather just opinion and information. That part is this:

    "And I think Erin, you feel personally threatened by this because it takes business away from you. You want to be the solution that gets hired, not some one else who might be able to do it faster, better or cheaper than you."

    I am not at all threatened by the fact that someone can do work faster, better or cheaper than me. My company is not the most inexpensive outsourcing firm out there. In fact, we're probably mid to high in terms of pricing. Our clients understand the value they are receiving when they work with us and those who don't understand the value, won't fully appreciate what we do as a company.

    As for the faster and better part... I think that really depends on the competing firm. In my own experience and through talking to other people, there have been more horrible experiences than positive ones when outsourcing overseas. I am not concerned about these other companies taking business away from me but I am concerned with how people will read into the IDEA of outsourcing when Internet marketers say you shouldn't pay more than $2 per hour.

    My whole point of this post is to illustrate that blanket statements, stereotypes and false advertising can create a perception around an industry that is false. Since John is not affected by these statements he makes, someone has to step up to clear the air a bit on what is and what isn't reality.

    John's a marketer. He's doing this to make money. He's using fear based tactics to create an illusion around outsourcing firms. He's using the "dream lifestyle" to encourage people to outsource cheaply. I don't agree with it and I think it does the industry I'm a part of a huge injustice.

    I'm not worried about losing business. I am simply worried about the perception aspect.
  • I would agree that shooting his video the way he did on the giant hill in sunny California and the super high end car and the sun glasses and his basically awkward presentation was way overboard and anything but transparent.

    That said, there is certainly the opportunity for SOMEONE to really take both the teaching and management of outsourcing for hundreds or thousands of new small buinesses to the next level, and there is a very good chance that John Reese (who is credited with creating the term e-business and was doing business on the Internet when most of us were still using land lines btw) can pull it off. I've heard that Mark Ling in New Zealand is pretty good too. And Odesk is also a good place to start looking for help directly - they have free training. And of course going to Erin's firm first is highly recommended since she does great work and is definitely down to earth.

    I restate my stance on this: Outsourcing will only continue to grow and it is an essential part of the new global economy. It would be beneficial for any business owner to at least understand their new options. The world certainly could use a major firm to start figuring out the entire process for thousands of newbies. While I found John's marketing pretty hilarious, I give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to actually implementing a solution. Let's just hope that he really did learn something from his race car debacle.

    I won't be buying his product, but I will be keeping an eye on the development. This concept isn't going anywhere but up...
  • Hey Erin

    As someone who's been actively involved and sold various products in the IM scene I think your post is right on the money.

    The only thing I will say about IM'ers creeping into the outsourcing scene, and especially overseas, it can be done and it can be done extremely effectively. That being said, it's not nearly as easy as anyone makes it out to be.

    You mention Tim Ferris, and he's a great example. I've used what Tim preaches to radically alter my life and business for the better. I don't see anything wrong with it and there's certainly been challenges and ups and downs along the way. I've also blogged about my experiences.

    I work with a tech support team overseas and I work with VA's in the USA. Quality can be found overseas - but never as easy as it looks.

    Knowing John and the products he's put out over the past couple of years - I certainly would NOT be buying his advice or this course on outsourcing. I would highly recommend Tim's book however as a great staring point.

    Buy Tim's book and then buy your own damn iPad :-)

    Great post Erin.
  • Thanks Noah! Excellent points in your comments!

    I agree with you - I think outsourcing cheaply and doing so overseas has a place. However, most of my clients (before they hire us) will ask me where my team is located because they want the assurance that they will be dealing with people in North America. For most of them, it's not a biased against people from other countries but rather a preference to speak to people with perfect English.

    I, as a savvy business woman, could have an entire team that is outsourced overseas. I'd be earning a lot more money... In fact, I'd probably be able to quickly triple or quadruple my profits instantly. However, I prefer to pay people who support the economies I am a part of. It's my own preference to do so and it just means that I earn less than I potentially could.

    I think this is a great conversation to open up in general because there are many different aspects of outsourcing overseas that people either agree with or disagree with.
  • Uh, yeah. I hate that brand of internet marketing to begin with, no matter the niche. Thanks for exposing this particular one for what it is-- a rip off.
  • I agree - I can't stand the superficial marketing either.
  • virtualassistantcom
    Erin, you've said it all! I couldn't agree more. Thanks!
  • Thank you!
  • What gets me, Erin, is that people still fall for these marekting techiques.

    If I arrive at a site offering a free eBook or a free teleconference as a lure to pay for something from someone telling me how to improve my quality of life or how to make millions, I'm out of there. These sites prey on the less intelligent and more easily lead amongst us, and shouldn't be encouraged.

    Then again, I guess everyone has a right to make a buck, it's up to the rest of society to decide whether they want to pay money to these people for their 'insights'.
  • It's true... People still do fall for the marketing techniques that feature slime, superficiality and the promise of millions. It's generally these people who are leasing out cars they can't afford, mortgaging houses they can't afford and trying to live "the life" so that they can sell the dream.

    No different than those cheesy late night infomercials.
  • Great analysis, I found the first video humorous and I didn't even make it to the second. I found John's recent report explaining how he sunk a TON of money into the idea that he could produce a special kind of race car humorous as well. That said, I have learned a lot from John Reese here and there and I'm sure that there is something to garnish from his teachings, just like there is a lot to garnish from books by Timothy Ferris and Thomas Friedman. But when it comes to outsourcing and delegating, I would personally lean toward hiring a firm like Erin's to manage the quality control for everything someone in the Internet Marketing space might need.

    A good example of a successful outsourcing team from my perspective is Joel Therien's use of technical support teams. They are able to provide 24 hour support via chat and tickets and are right on top of things because of the time difference. Joel moved his company GVO from Canada to Texas for a strategic location in terms of bandwidth and his tech support to the other side of the world for what I can only imagine is a more efficient cost for service and they guys are pretty good. I get the feeling that they are leading a lot of the software development as well. I also think that Hostgator is doing the same, at any one time they can have 30 or so technicians available for chat support and it seems like they are doing a killer job of employing those who are highly trained in something specific like web hosting support and who most likely are primarily somewhere in the Pacific (for chat at least).

    One thing I do think is good about the outsourcing discussion is that (primarily Americans) need to realize that other countries that had years of producing highly educated and able individuals, but had a lack of local work and so as Thomas Friedman, put it, it was as if the "fruit was left rotting on the vine". The Internet is changing all of that and personally I feel that a lot of people in other countries are willing to work a lot harder and more efficiently now that they finally have the opportunity to compete. What that means for American's or anyone in a similar position is that they should not try to compete, but to utilize and embrace the help. I believe what Thomas said in his book was that it is up for the leaders of the global economy to continue leading and setting the trend, but this will require a lot of adapting for a lot of people (primarily Americans). Another good analogy was the paper mill; at one point it made the town boom, but things change and those people who used to work in the mill had to adapt and learn to do other, hopefully more skilled and higher paying, jobs...

    From what I've seen Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India and the Phillippines have all shown very positive and entrepreneurial attitudes when it comes to working with the rest of the world over the Internet. But we all have to remember that the Internet is still in it's infancy and there will always be a next generation that is looking to better their position in life and their standard of living by working for people halfway across the world. People come online every day and there will essentially be no end to the progression. I think the sooner that people embrace this "world is flat" concept, the easier time they will have as the global economy continues to drastically change. And I do think that your best bet is to hire an experienced professional like Erin rather than an information product when it comes to being serious business automation and delegation.

    On a related note, I thought the movie "Outsourced" was really charming and funny. Kind of like "Office Space", but with the global perspective. Keep repeating "We Are One" people. Please. We are.
  • You make many great points here Justin.

    The thing I want to stress is that I am not against using service providers from various countries. However, they have their certain space in the outsourcing world - just like companies like mine (and countless others) do.

    In John's videos, he makes too many blanket statements that boil outsourcing down to a $2 per hour POWER FORMULA which just seems a bit stereotyped and closed minded.
  • What I did like is his emphasis that there is a virtually unlimited source of people who would be extremely glad to work for what we consider ridiculous rates. I do believe this is true and I do believe that it has only begun. It has a lot to do with the strength of the currency and Timothy Ferris takes it a step further by saying that you could then relocated to a place where your earnings go a lot further, it is the same concept.

    I do believe that outsourcing represents a major opportunity for people all across the world to finally do something other than selling fruits and vegetables at the local market. And I do also believe that the quality of the work these people can produce will only get better and better as they become better trained and more experienced.

    The key to profitability and efficiency in any operation is compartmentalization and specialization. If a firm of Indian's with MBAs can crank out a detailed market analysis in 24 hours because that is something they do every day, then that is fantastic. If a family in the Phillippines has mastered Craigslist posting for real estate professionals and it is allowing them to finally send a few of their children to a college abroad for the first time then that is also fantastic. The fact that it costs the person hiring them less is just a benefit and competitive advantage and I would hope that all business owners are open to performance based bonuses like Jeff mentioned. The foundation of Democracy is equal opportunity with the best rising to the top.

    I think that the Canadian perspective is just one removed from the American as they are very similar in regards to being North American and Western with a fairly high standard and cost of living. MUCH of the world is VERY different from that, but like I said before, EVERYONE deserves to opportunity to live with that amount of comfort and education. And people will also continue to come from those other countries for schooling, non-outsourceable jobs and a variety of other benefits that our more developed countries have to offer.

    But once again, the main thing for people in modernized countries to accept is that they should certainly not be trying to do work that fits into the category of easily outsourced. Frankly, if you go to college in the West for something like graphic design and it sets you back say $100K and then you try and go out in the world and design logos or web graphics you could very well find yourself screwed unless you adapt and learn to build your own business and make use of talent from around the world (who probably learned exactly what you learned about Photoshop and Illustrator for free from practice and the Internet). That is just an example to illustrate a point...
  • skrahl
    Erin, very well written article!! I watched the videos myself and most of the same thoughts entered my mind as what you stated.

    Outsourcing overseas really hits a nerve with me. I've been in IT for the past 17+ years and have experienced exactly what you stated. Usually the teams I have been on where management outsourced part of the project or an entire project ended up becoming a nightmare.

    We usually had to do twice as much work just to MAKE it work... which is counter productive in my mind. Plus, the "completed" work we would get back from the outsourcing company was usually very poor quality.

    The videos have really hit a nerve with me too.

    Great job Erin!
  • Unfortunately IT professionals have been grossly overpaid for the last 10 or 20 years. I think that people in IT will be hit perhaps the hardest as things start to level out. I worked with Indian American programmers and engineers in San Francisco and I feel like it gave me a great glimpse of the future. Only half of them or so had their green cards, but they were doing amazing work. Indian's are very intelligent, very mathematical and very hard workers by nature. Also, they seem to do bang up jobs when they don't have to interface with overpaid, white bureaucracy which is the norm in most Western IT departments. Don't even get me started on the Asians....

    I know these are more broad generalizations that Erin doesn't like, but it is just my opinion so take it all with a grain of salt.

    In America, most people have accepted that Latinos do great jobs as contractors, cleaners and cooks. It's a generalization, but if you look at the data it is true. And before them it was the Italians and the Irish or the Chinese who built the railroads. The African's who did ALL of the manual labor in the South? Please.

    Outsourcing is anything but new, it is just that now they can really be "Outside" of the country thanks to the Internet. (which remember is still in it's infancy) And I personally choose to see it as a wonderful opportunity for everyone involved rather than any kind of "non-communist" threat... It is really just capitalism at its finest...
  • skrahl
    There is a difference between outsourcing a project overseas to India vs. working side by side on the same team with a very qualified individual who can speak fluent English.

    I too have worked with many fantastic individuals from India on various projects. They were usually my favorite people to work with. The individuals I'm referring to were well qualified and could speak English better than most Americans. However, when it came down to outsourcing complex projects overseas, in my experience, it usually ended up costing more in both time and money.

    Something humorous you may be interested in, I have worked with highly skilled individuals from India on projects where they recommended NOT outsourcing overseas to India because they were aware of how most of the firms operated. In the long run it can end up costing more depending on the project. Most projects I've been on were not simple so the more complex a project I think you're better off NOT outsourcing it overseas.

    I'm also with Erin on this one... we should be supporting our own struggling economy rather than outsourcing to other countries!
  • "struggling" is a very relative term. i assume that you live in a country with great healthcare, education and clean water. if so, you are very lucky to be born into that kind of life and were born with an immediate advantage.

    i believe in capitalism and efficiency. if something is more efficient then that is what i support. if you want to help your own economy then come up with something that creates jobs that are not able to be outsourced instead of overpaying for service just to be a good "citizen".

    that said, obviously if outsourcing an entire project is less efficient then it is a mistake and falsely advertising how easy it is to outsource is a major mistake with today's transparent marketing. i'm very curious to see how john reese's thing pans out...
  • Thanks for commenting :)

    It's true... outsourcing overseas has its definite drawbacks. I think it has its place (sometimes) but more often than not, we should be supporting our own struggling economies and not dishing it out elsewhere.
  • Chelsey Rogerson
    Great article! Very interesting!
  • I don't like the entire concept of getting rich off of people in a poorer economy. Yes, the rich all over the world have done it for as long as we've been around. But that doesn't make it right. I know you can find solid team members in other countries, but that is very different approach then getting a bunch of faceless people (makes it easier) to work for you at an insanely low wage. Thanks for writing this article, Erin...
  • Hi Wendy!

    You touch on a very important point - the concept of getting rich off of people who charge pennies. I personally call this exploitation. I realize that these overseas providers are charging what they do because they can and it might be a lot for them but I can't get past paying someone two bucks per hour.

    I would prefer to create a company that can afford to pay the team that supports it fairly and supports the workforce in our own economy. At the end of the day, I can sleep better knowing that my team is paid rates that I believe in.
  • it isn't any different from trading spices with nations where they are more abundant, except that now we have at least evolved to the point where you can't slaughter the people or turn them into slaves. let's all say a prayer for something called "human rights".

    but do understand that getting more for your money is just smart business sense and that by outsourcing you are FINALLY providing some people who have lived with generations of squaller the chance to better their situation. remember "The American Dream?" well guess what, everyone on Earth deserves it. and there is a right way and a wrong way to help other countries achieve it while building your own business in a healthy way. Erin represents the right way. but make no mistakes, outsourcing will only increase and most likely at an exponential rate. so don't try to compete or condemn anyone who embraces the concept. do try to adapt and participate...

    and btw, the entire concept of a corporation was built on sea ships trading internationally (hence the saying "when my ship comes in") and has always been built on the idea that you are providing a situation where lots of people are paid less than you are, but where everyone involved is able to prosper. what determines how much you are paid has nothing to do with what country you are in, but what value you yourself can uniquely provide...
  • Erin, THANK YOU! I have been following this launch through another Internet Marketer who has found a "team of business partners available full-time to him for only $300 per month....and you can, too!" (Paraphrasing, but that is the gist of it.) I have wanted to address my concerns with this approach in my blog, but do not feel I can do that yet without cursing. :) I too believe this is yet another totally unrealistic pipe dream to capitalize on.

    This is not a situation where John and his fellow millionaire IM friends cannot afford a U.S. VA, it is a matter of greed and keeping as much in their own pockets as possible paying oversees service providers and buying foreign cars. All while they ask others to hand over the last of their savings on the next big promise of big money.
  • I think the thing that bothers me most is exactly what you said: hand over the last of your savings on the next promise of big money.

    Outsourcing isn't a quick fix or a money making machine. Outsourcing frees up your time to allow you to implement some of the other ways to make money - creating passive revenue, creating new products and services, etc. Outsourcing itself is not the big ticket money maker.

    However, John Reese will make money from this Outsource Force launch. People will drink the Kool-Aid and pay him a lot of money so that they can learn exactly what they'd learn FOR FREE on many virtual assistant websites, online and in books.
  • Melissa
    Our company tried to outsource to India for development. It was cheap, the people were friendly, and they were available during normal business hours. However, they also would misinterpret half of what we said so projects took 3x as long as they normally would've. There was a lot of back and forth, a lot of projects being redone because they misunderstood. They had to be managed by one of the staff at all times, so we had to pay someone to babysit them as well. Im sure if we had someone that spoke their language, it wouldve gone much more smoothly. Overall, we could've paid a person in the states to complete the projects quicker, with less frustrations, and believe it or not... CHEAPER!
  • Hi Melissa!

    Thanks for sharing your own experience with outsourcing overseas. This is EXACTLY what is driving me crazy about the John Reese videos. He isn't explaining the frustrating side of it but selling it like it's the magical pill that all entrepreneurs need to down... Some people will and they'll quickly realize that they are really no farther than they were before.
  • Very well stated. I have seen three other Internet Marketers put out a video series about outsourcing to the Phillipines in the last month. It is part of the epidemic that keeps our own economies struggling.

    Still waiting to see your video on this subject.
  • I totally agree Chris... Epidemic is the best word for it! Internet marketers think to themselves, "How can I make even more money to buy that flashy thing that other people will think is awesome and they'll buy from me" so they cut costs in places they shouldn't.

    I will be developing a video on it for sure... Stay tuned ;)
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